You started off fine, there; certainly a more accepting and mature attitude than I’ve taken, I’ll admit. But then you just had to undercut yourself.
If the words of a person who is just doing a job and isn’t overly concerned with following a storyline, and whose entire consumer base is pretending by the fact they’re playing a game, carried any real weight regarding this topic, that might actually mean something.
The Game Director is basically the author right?
Like saying Tolkien wasn’t the final authority on LoTR lore. No, he’s just a person doing his job. He should’ve consulted Heisenberg on the Silmarillion.
Familiarise yourself with a concept called “Death of the Author”
Nice try, poor example. Tolkien didn’t sign up to a book-writing company as his career choice and get told by his employers to come up with a story to be published in order to satisfy the company’s reader base as part of his job; he wrote his story because he felt the need to write it and established his lore out of a desire to have it. And while that certainly carries more weight than someone helping churn out content in a video game as part of their job giving their personal input on the matter, it does not make even Tolkien infallible even as the very source and establisher of his own lore. Any inconsistency between what he might have said about some aspect of his lore that did not match what was actually in the material, even when the material itself provided its own answer the question, calls his answer to it into question. You can actually see him address an example of this in subsequent publications of the Hobbit, where Bilbo Baggins’ behavior after finding the One Ring is inconsistent with what he had written previously about how Hobbits behave, and he had to make adjustments to subsequent publications and include some writer notes about it being the Ring that caused such changes, in order to explain the inconsistency. He caught himself in the very act of botching his own lore, and addressed it accordingly.
The point of this? The author and creator of the work is not infallible even with their own work, and especially when they either never were or are no longer truly invested in it. As mentioned before, examples of this exist all across the media spectrum. While their word is usually the one to be taken, it is not automatically the final word, and if what they say outside of the material in question contradicts what is actually present in the material, especially when the answer can be found in the material itself anyway, then what they have to say on the matter is at best questionable, as is whether or not they are actually following along with their own established work.
Now, the project director responsible for Freelancer might have his ideas about where Freelancer does or does not fit in the storyline, but you know what? Something as simple as another director of another project making a new, canonical chapter in the Hitman storyline that acknowledges the occurrence of all past games and the events of Freelancer would put an end to any weight his opinion carries. Now, that hasn’t happened yet, and as I said before, the opposite could be true; someone with the next game could establish a timeline of the story that makes Freelancer absolutely impossible, relegating it to non-canon status after all. Until either one happens, we go off of what material we have. What do we have? A mode that clearly shows 47 and Diana continuing their work after the end of the main game, which the final cutscene canonically established was going to happen, so this mode actually shows them doing what they say they’re gonna do.
But, the powers that be, commenting outside the material, believe that it’s an alternate timeline, simply because the maps haven’t changed… despite that fact not being a problem with their consideration of certain ETs being canon due to their presence in the ICA database in the actual game, meaning the maps and NPCs being the same during those ET missions is simply a gameplay limitation that is to be ignored.
So with an already established reason for unchanged maps not affecting canonicity, and events happening as described within the material itself, and no contradictory information found within the material, which view do you think is more reliable in this matter? The view of the person who made the mode because it’s their job and they’re being assigned to the task, making them less likely to be actually invested in the storyline that the company as a whole has established and more concerned with the individual product? Or, the view of the person who has spent the last 17 years obsessing over the storyline and painstakingly assembling a full, cohesive story together based off of what the games themselves have presented, finding which occurrences in the games match with that storyline and which do not?
Basically, to use an analogy, are you going to trust the company repair man who only does what his job requires him to and had only been assigned to one particular type of appliance for a short time, or the repair man who has spent the majority of his life repairing all manner of things because it’s what he does and he’s become a virtual expert as a result?
And this doesn’t just apply to me; as long as it doesn’t contradict what the actual material tells us, or unless what both the material and the creators tell us match up, I would trust the opinions of anyone here over what the creators tell us, because we are the ones who are invested in this. Even when I disagree with someone on what’s what, especially lore canonicity, I respect that they are at least coming to the conclusions they are because they are actually analyzing the material itself instead of just relying on Word of God.
Who am I kidding, you tl;dr this thing from the beginning, didn’t you, and probably took nothing in. Short version: learn what @Diana47 said above.
I’d like to make clear that at no point have I outright stated or implied that the authors are infallible and any perceived mistakes are still the gospel truth. I agree with you on that so your pontificating essay zealously trying to debunk an opinion I do not hold was a complete waste of both our time.
My problem with your take on the canon is that you seem to be under the impression that because authors are capable of mistakes that means your interpretation of things is not subjective headcanon but just as valid if not more so because you have spent the last 17 years obsessing over the storyline which makes you the grand loremaster and you project this upon Freelancer thinking just because it thematically fits at the end of the game and you see nothing that contradicts it so it must be canon but the same argument can be made of all supernatural aspects to the game and you obviously agree that’s just a bit of silly fun. Just references and easter eggs. Even without developers having to say so.
Freelancer not being canon does not cause logical inconsistency or lore problems and the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Absence of proof is not proof itself. You can not disprove god therefore god must be real. Just change god with Freelancer except we do have proof on the contrary word of god by the developers themselves.
You rely on the words of the developers when it suits you and dismiss it completely when it doesn’t align with your opinion.
Like Erigu put it making fun of you and you even liked his post which to me suggests you are severely lacking in the self-critical department and before you go and unlike it I already screenshot it.
You gave no source for this statement. No proof.
“It has been stated that Freelancer is a canon occurrence in the timeline”
Then Fleur claimed otherwise and he brought receipts unlike you.
Then all of the sudden the developers opinion on the matter is irrelevant to you.
“Not relevant.”
No person should waste time arguing with you but alas I feel a sense duty to prove you wrong so others may see you for what you are - an intellectually dishonest person who doesn’t argue in good faith.
It’s been fun but why continue arguing ad infinitum about this when it isn’t going anywhere? Can’t say I won’t be tempted to continue in the future but for now I am done.
This is shall be my magnum opus for I have defered to the developers themselves and pointed out the flaws in your character and there is nothing more I feel I can add to the discussion. If you aren’t willing to accept the literal definitive answer from IOI there is nothing you’ll accept and you can keep making all types of baseless claims you want and I hope others will see through it and not give you the time of day.
Too be fair I don’t think you are completely without good and reasonable opinions and arguments but it is obvious you stop caring about objective truth when it’s a topic you care about deeply which is honestly sad.
My (admittedly poor) understanding of the “Death of the Author” argument goes basically like this:
It is incorrect to attribute sole ownership, or the ability to interpret, a work to the original author of that work. While the author may have opinions and views on what the meaning of his/her work is and will have opinions on whether certain aspects of a work are canonical or not, it is left to the reader to make that determination and that carries as much, or more, weight as the original author.
Assuming that is at least marginally correct, my take is that it’s garbage. If I write a story, it’s my story and the only one that can rightfully interpret what that story means is me.
For Tolkien, he was the only person who had any right to interpret the Lord of the Rings - at least with any authority.
Used to be that George Lucas owned Star Wars. If George said some comic was canon then it was. If he said it wasn’t, then it wasn’t. Once he sold the rights to Disney, they became the owner of what is and isn’t canon (regardless of what the public thinks).
In the case of something like Hitman, it’s more like Disney and Star Wars than Tolkien. I have no idea who the original author of Hitman was. It was someone that worked on the original game 20+ years ago. The intellectual property though isn’t owned by one person. It’s owned by IOI and it’s them, as an entity, that can say whether events are canon or not. I’ll take any official statements by IOI on the canonicity of a given event over any individual player. Where IOI chooses to be silent the the public can weigh in with some degree of authority.
Your first part of your opening response was absolutely fine, but then you derailed completely.
Anyway, you’ve chosen not to respond to my response where I compared the canon aspect of Elusive Targets and them sharing the same locations as the Campaign Targets. Exactly the same happens in Freelancer with Syndicate members and the Campaign targets, so what’s your point?
I think the point @Heisenberg is making on this, back during a live stream during either HITMAN or Hitman 2 time, Elusive Targets were said to take place in a parallel timeline, but were suddenly then made canon in Hitman III when 47 retrieved the ICA target files from the Data Core in ‘End of an Era’.
Think the point is, directors/developers often have different perspectives on things during game/film making. How many times have directors and producers said the complete opposite things during interviews prior to a films release? I’ll give you an example, Steven Caple Jr (Director) said that Transformers Rise of the Beasts takes place in a different timeline compared to the Michael Bay films, however, Lorenzo di Bonaventura (Producer) said it shares the same canon timeline as the Michael Bay Transformers films. With the situation with Freelancer, like I’ve said the director of the mode had to conduct that type of response due to the game mechanics restrictions as removing the NPC characters, campaign targets, game dialogue etc would cause too much of a problem for the Freelancer mode and would likely have delayed it more than it was originally. Again, the ending of Hitman III ties too much into the Freelancer for it to not tie together.
My final point, if IOI had no intention of aligning the ending of Hitman III and Freelancer together, why did they remove ‘ICA Approved’ in the Freelancer mission briefing?
Freelancer - How to Play Video (2022)
Freelancer Launch Trailer (2023)
Surely if this was just a mode that didn’t take place if the establishment canon timeline and it indeed was in parallel timeline, so wouldn’t matter?
Conclusion, The Safehouse, 47 and Diana’s issuing of Freelance contracts, is the canon part of the story, which aligns with the ‘New Deal’ cutscene at the end of Hitman III. The actual locations as to where these syndicates are eliminated is obviously left up to player ambiguity as they’re not obviously eliminated in Paris, Sapeniza or Mendoza exactly like how they’re presented in the main story.
I rest my case 
It could be debated whether that’s actual “canon” or simply an easter egg, just like the Mendoza conversations about Faba or even the bunker photos in Colorado. Personally I think that besides “47 went to those places and killed the mission targets”, a lot of what actually happens in the levels (kill method, where 47 was, who he talked with etc) is left to the player’s agenda, so there aren’t a lot of things that are totally set in stone. I mean there are still people debating whether Novikov was killed with the light rig or not depending on how they choose to view the cutscene in Untouchable, and as far as I know there’s no definitive answer. So to me it’s kinda pointless to consider theories as anything other than just that, theories. It doesn’t mean we have to stop making them though.
This always felt strange to me TBH. It’s like they were initially going for Freelancer taking place at the same time contracts do (the actual WOA contracts mode, not Hitman: Contracts), as evidenced by a lot of the equipment being “ICA brand”, then decided they wanted it to take place post-Untouchable by removing some references to the ICA (which wasn’t even needed in the first place - after all 47 could still be using some ICA network features long after it was disbanded just because he had access to it)… but not all. I don’t exactly remember when the switch was, but IIRC some people complained about those ICA logos during the CTT and IOI removed them for the public release?
This is what i hate about video games now a days. Makes people turn into zombies trying to achieve an artificial “feel good” as opposed to “just playing the game”.
But i digress.
That’s exactly how I view Elusive Targets and Freelancer Syndicate Members/Leaders. 47 eliminates these targets, obviously Elusive Targets taking place prior to the WOA Trilogy, during the story and then Freelancer Syndicates take place post-Untouchable. All of these take place, however, like you said, it’s left to the players agenda due to different methods and ways to kill. Also, obviously all these hits aren’t taking place at the same Paris fashion show or during the same protest in Marrakesh.
I remember us all discussing it in that thread I made prior to Freelancer’s launch and we all flagged it up as to why it said ‘ICA Approved’ due to the theme of Freelancer. Then we saw that IOI removed it, which was pretty cool because it shows how much they take on board player feedback 
Like we’ve been discussing, it was clearly removed due to Freelancer being themed post-Untouchable.
Ok, I’m not gonna address the majority of your speech there, primarily because half of it is just repeat with more words, and the other half would require me posting the statement I mentioned where IOI said Freelancer is canon, and as I said before, I can’t find it. I’ve searched IOI’s site for all statements concerning Freelancer and can’t find anything that contains anything I remember reading. I also couldn’t find anything from the post Fluer made either, which tells me that I’m not going to find it there. It’s been over a year, I only read it once and considered it a closed subject after doing so, so never bothered to go back to it, and so I’m blind right now in bringing it forward. I’ve asked Fluer for help in this, as wherever that post they quoted was found might be where what I read can be found as well. If I can’t find it, I’ll confess to having gaslit myself by basing my claim off of a faulty memory and admit to being wrong in regards to any claim IOI has made on affirming Freelancer’s canonicity.
That being said, I am going to address the two points below.
You aren’t proving anything of the sort, because that’s not what arguing in good faith means. If I were not arguing in good faith, I’d have to know that what I am saying is wrong, yet keep arguing the point anyway; or, be making the argument in the first place in pursuit of an agenda that is not actually related to the point of my argument. I have done neither.
You have said nothing that convinces me of your position of Freelancer not being canon, and I have said nothing misleading or that I know is false. To begin with, I already said that when I mentioned IOI confirming Freelancer as canon, I only used that statement to bolster my position of why I consider it such. I do not rely on it as the sole reason for this conclusion, so even if I’m wrong on that, all it means is that my argument loses that bolstering. Yes, that does by necessity make my argument weaker, but not automatically incorrect.
I brought it up in good faith because I was genuinely certain at the time I mentioned it that that statement had been made. I did not make any link or post to it when I mentioned it, because I was under the impression that this matter had been settled a year ago, sometime not too long after Freelancer was released, because that was when it was a matter of discussion, IOI’s statement came up, and the discussion ended with most generally accepting after that that the mode does canonically take place after Untouchable. I was under the impression that most of us on here were aware of that as well, and that’s why I didn’t bother trying to back it up at the time, because it is unnecessary to provide proof of common knowledge. If I were to make the statement that 47 was bald, I wouldn’t feel the need to back that up, and if someone demanded I do, I’d tell them to look it up themselves, I don’t need to prove what’s widely known. I took a similar position with my statement.
Now, two important things have come up in the last few days of this argument that, yeah, I’ll admit, has left some egg on my face: that discussion was not as settled as I’d believed, so it was arrogant of me to take that position automatically; and, I may very well be remembering the wrong things about what I read from IOI at that time. The fact that I can’t find it again is really making me nervous in this matter, as I don’t usually misremember such things, but being unable to find which info release it is myself, I’m now doubting myself. Not for the wider discussion of Freelancer’s canonicity, nothing’s disrupted my stance on that; but that I made an argument that I’m so far unable to follow through on, that’s not typical of me, and that’s got me questioning myself. The post I read it in could have been removed, but I doubt it, and I’m not going to cop out and use that as an excuse.
If Fluer can’t help point me in the right direction where to look, or I can’t find it myself in the next couple of days here, I’ll admit to being wrong. The point I’m making with all this is, I have been arguing in good faith, particularly regarding my statement on IOI, because I meant it when I said it. If it turns out I was wrong, that’s a different matter, and I am willing to admit when I’m wrong, when I’m presented with evidence that shows I am. Which leads me to this next point…
No objective truth has come up in this discussion that I have ignored. At this time, I’ll still stand by what I said and what I believe I read from IOI, but if I can’t find my source, or it turns out I read it wrong, then I will be confronted with the objective truth that what had been said about IOI’s stance is correct and mine is wrong. You’ve not provided proof showing me I was wrong either, you’ve only pointed to evidence that a contrary position by one individual was made; that does not automatically constitute proof that what I said I read doesn’t exist. So for right now, we’re in a nebulous limbo as far as who is right on what IOI said, but rest assured, if I can’t find my source, or if I do and it turns out I had it wrong, I will admit to that.
Setting aside the aspect of IOI’s opinion, there’s otherwise no “objective reality” you or anyone can present at this time that shows Freelancer as definitively non-canon, so I am not ignoring any objective reality.
I suppose I could meet you halfway here and admit, upon serious reflection these last few days, that I really can’t say Freelancer being canon is objective truth either. I did say, after all, that if something comes along that furthers the storyline and Freelancer is rendered an impossibility in the timeline as a result, that would be that. If I’m going to adhere to my own parameters, I do have to admit, to you and myself, that I’ve really got nothing that assures Freelancer will be acknowledged when a new entry in the timeline is eventually made.
So while I refute your statement of me rejecting objective reality, I’ll meet you halfway and admit to not having presented any objective reality, either. So now, with nothing further at the moment, give me a little more time in regards to what IOI did or did not say, and we’ll conclude that argument as well.
All this talk about Freelancer being canon when if it is canon going forward, the very best reference to it will be a small mention of 47 and Diana doing some work together in the years since. I doubt the next Hitman is going to be 47 facing retribution for taking out The Dumper.
Likely true, but beside the point.
Im playing the Yakuza series atm and all I have to say is… Yeah. I really enjoy the games and wanted to Platinum them but holy moly the checklist is insane so I feel a similar pain.
It really is daunting, but once you get it down to those last 8 challenges, it really is a load off, because you can just play it and those will be ticked off in time, no need to do anything special to get them.
Ultimate battles (and their equivalents) and any mini-game-related achievements and/or completion requirements made me reconsider that goal significantly…
Honestly aside from the really grindy stuff (500 leaders / 100 campaigns / 10 prestige being the main offenders), the Freelancer challenges aren’t that bad. The 100 headshot one was actually pretty fun with the unsilenced Druzhinas.
Did they ever fix that challenge so it is only the specific Druzhina mentioned in the challenge, or do they all still work?
They all still work (even The Scrappy Sniper Rifle), but I’m 99.99999999999999999% sure it’s intentional and not a bug. Just like how the Way of the Samurai challenge doesn’t need the Katana specifically but also counts the Masamune and The Ornamental/Makeshift Katana
Listing “with a katana” is more broad than mentioning the full name of a specific sniper rifle imo. Could be intentional or also could be the challenge may have just originally been just that specific one, they opened it up a little and never updated the challenge I guess.
