I’m more than fine with the individuality of consciousness being limited to life.
It’s a great, marvellous thing for life. It’s glorious. Best thing about it. Love it.
But for beyond that?
It has yearnings, limitations, a lively lovely yet inadequate for beyond outself shape.
(And also, unfortunately, the potential of having terrible scars).
So if it’s “just” life, and then being alive in memories to the ones who love us, I’m fine with it.
(Besides who knows what that would be if the list includes a certain One, and what being always alive in Their Eyes would mean)
(Also I realised I bungled the negatives: so “it’s I wouldn’t agree that it would be terrible for consciousness to continue after death”).
I wouldn’t say higher consciousness.
First because I wouldn’t put a hierarchy on it.
Second it’s not born from a desire to see all there is and will be, I consider the possibility of doing this and the will of doing it to be alien to each other. The part of me that would desire it (and I have one) yearns for it due to being living. Same for any similar desire, suffering, yearning and their expressions. Which I would then see has having come to pass.
Third I’m on the “always alive in the eyes of the Lord” and “god of the living, not of the dead” side of things religion wise.
Why not? If you’re dead, chances are you will be burned or burried. Wouldn’t wanna be awake for that.
Are you talking about some higher level of consciousness instead? I’d definitely want that. See the future and everything. But I also have a feeling I’d want to cease to be at some point.
This particular argument - that you didn’t know you weren’t alive before you were and you won’t know it after - has a gaping flaw. Because, after all, we don’t remember anything from roughly our first two years or so of life, right? It’s only around 3 years old or so that we have any memories of our existence, yet we certainly still existed before that time. It’s horrible to think about how you were, but aren’t aware of the fact that you were. Same thing when you’re rendered unconscious from anesthesia; during that time, you’re completely unaware of anything, and when you become aware again, you’re also aware of how you were unaware. It’s awful. Awareness, consciousness, I think therefore I am, are so profound and unique, more than the sum of their parts, still not completely explainable to science, that the thought of such a thing simply ceasing is the single most horrible thing I can imagine. It’s an offense to life, that it should come from a blank void, and then return to that blank void at some point; exiting that blank void into consciousness should be a line that cannot be crossed back over.
It’s this same reason why thoughts of reincarnation or existence cycling back and replaying itself over again holds no appeal to me. If I don’t remember that previous life or previous cycle of existence, it may as well have not happened. Just as I can derive no significance or satisfaction from anything I experienced in my first two years of life to the point that those first two years are an utterly irrelevant period of my existence, so would being reincarnated or being in a replaying cycle not matter either. If I can’t remember the experiences of this life, then the me that now exists may as well not exist even while the existence is repeating itself. No comfort at all.
The fear is getting worse, has been for years now, but now I’m having moments on almost a daily basis where I do something as simple as look at my hand and now be more aware than any other time that one day I’ll look at it and it will be old and frail, as will the rest of me, and that will mean I will only have a few years left at best, and that if I never get to that point, it means that I’ll already be gone. Its hitting more than ever that every second that ticks by brings me one second closer to my death, and it’s paralyzing me.
I can’t just not post this sorta deep stuff after typing it out.
Existence. Is it like a song that plays on a record player? There for a moment when the needle is placed down, then gone when the needle is lifted. Is life the mere bumps and grooves etched into the record itself? Or are we the needle that goes through it? Or are we the song that plays as a result of what’s etched into the record? Neither the record or the needle stop existing just because their interaction stops. Or perhaps we’re the one or thing that hears the song.
But both go bad with prolonged use and time. It’s said that vinyl records last up to 100 years if kept in proper conditions, after that any data on it is lost.
Well now that is patently untrue. Both still matter even if they are unused. I have Frampton Comes Alive autographed picture disc. I’ve never taken it out of its sleeve and would certainly never play it but it means a lot to me, personally. I reminds me of a particular day in a particular place.
I’ve seen memes about how when were kids we went out to play one day, not knowing it would be the last time with those friends, ever. That album was purchased on the last day I had with one of my absolute best friends and we both knew it was going to be the last when it happened. It’s much more, personally, than “useless inert material”.
I have three phonographs in my house and all three are worth something even if they don’t play actual records. My Victor is a beautifully stained wood why my Victrola is gilt in tin. Both are objects that I like to look at (though I do play records on them from time to time) and stand on their own.
Personal connection to something once it ceases its intended function is a whole other discussion, one that I won’t argue. I’ll simply clarify that both cease to matter in terms of their original, intended existence.
You put a lot of faith into memories when I cannot even trust myself to be sure if I put the food leftovers into the fridge yesterday. Maybe you could remember all previous lifetimes but half of them are wrong so it is not worth too much.
To reiterate, the whole “record/record-player/song” ideas were metaphors for life or existence. Well, maybe those were not the best examples. Seeing how physical objects are subject to wear/usage, or digital can be affected by bit-rot. The point was the process and effect that comes from the interaction, and how it is limited.
Okay. Let’s do this…
Let’s set a foundation for our (or my ) terms. By consciousness I mean the thing that is not “you”. Not the fake you.
Who are “you”? That gets into the concept of labels. You might go by the name of (just as a random example - I know no one by this name) Gregory Smith. You live in Chester Pennsylvania, work as a car salesman, and are 32 years old. All of these descriptors or identifiers are mere labels you attach to the physical form/corporeal entity that you identify as yourself. This is the fake person.
The real you is where consciousness comes in. You’re the thing that observes the existence of (this) Gregory Smith (if that were your label). It can get more in-depth than this, but this is about the simplest way I can explain it. While a physical form can be limited and will stop existing one day - your consciousness will continue. Or, that’s a prevailing concept when delving into such subjects.
You (Heisenberg) are at least aware of the concept of alternate or past lifetimes. Wondering (and correct me if I’m wrong) if there are lessons that are to be learned while we’re here in our present physical forms. But also wondering what the point is if you can’t remember what was… Or might’ve been.
Perhaps we are spared the burden of memories of past lives so as to start fresh. I’ve asked myself a few times in the past; “I wonder what I had planned to do before I came here to exist as the person I am now?” I would believe that having a backlog of past life memories would be completely overwhelming. Only when we’re freed from our physical limitations might we recall everything.
But what is the point? That’s about as close to the question of “What’s the meaning (or purpose) of life?”
The point being, if there’s no awareness of it, it doesn’t matter if it’s an actual thing. If I have multiple lives, but I’m only aware of this one, then I don’t actually have multiple lives; I only have this one. Those others are different people living their own lives and we’re just passing the same soul or whatever off to one another when we’re done using it.
I have the same reaction to arguments like “we all live in a simulation”. If I can’t access anything outside the simulation, who cares if we’re in one or not? Same thing applies to the origin of the universe. We can’t access anything outside of the universe and however it came to be, whether by a deity, natural process, or some sort of cosmic fart, who cares? Whatever cause the universe has, it has clearly not interacted with the universe since it formed so who cares about it?
) terms. By consciousness I mean the thing that is not “you”. Not the fake you.
