Year 4, The Undying returns (Second run: October 18 - November 10 2024)

[PatteDeFruit]

Great news! And a welcome addition to the Elusive Target Arcade mode

[Heisenberg]

@474747

I don’t think any of these theories hold weight. I know it’s fun to speculate about head canon and I do that myself often but to think that there is more to it than just that is silly. There is no canonicity to the ETs or any particular changes to the ET maps.

It has been stated that Freelancer is a canon occurrence in the timeline, and that the presence of past targets and lack of changes to the maps is a gameplay limitation that we are meant to ignore. The same can be said of the ETs; many of them take place on maps where the same things that happened in the main game still happen, such as the fashion show and auction in Paris. This is explained as there being multiple fashion shows and auctions that Novikov and Margolis host each year, and that the same movements and dialogues take place is a gameplay limitation that we are supposed to ignore. That is why ETs such as the Forger and the Broker can exist canonically in the game, having taken place years before the actual Showstopper mission during the main game.

@474747

It’s been asked and answered in one of the old livestreams. ETs are alternative universe. Pretty sure it was Clemens that said it.

That was prior to H3 having ETs appear in the ICA database and many name-dropped at the Mendoza party. And while these could simply be filler material and Easter eggs, as some undoubtably are, it does open the door to some of the ETs existing in the actual canon storyline. Some, like the ones in Dartmoor and Colorado, are impossible because of how their stories conflict with what we know, and these are alternate universe ETs, but others can fit.

@474747

But maybe it’s all canon Freelancer, Escalations, ETs and Holiday Themed Missions. Santa Claus is real. The Easter Bunny is real.

As stated above, Freelancer is confirmed canon, and Holiday Hoarders is also canon, having taken place during Christmas in a prior year when the fashion show was held during Christmas time. The Santa Claus present in that mission is not the real Santa, but a guy dressed up in a Santa suit using smoke pellets and other special effects tricks to make it seem like he’s appearing out of nowhere because he’s caught up in the gimmick. The Easter Hunt escalation is not a canon story because its mechanics don’t fit within the game in a sensible way, and so at best is a dream 47 is having, like the 7 Deadly Sins, or Orson’s Halloween nightmare. Dartmoor Garden Show is a canon event that takes place after the end of the main campaign, as evidenced by Alexa Carlisle’s filled grave and the property donated to the state. The Sarajevo Six also can be considered canon events that took place the year prior to the main WoA story for the same reasons as listed above.

@474747

My problem isn’t head canon speculation it’s talking about it as if it’s all completely by design and all of you are here to figure out the TRUE timeline of canonical events.

Your problem is not our problem. It doesn’t need to be by design. The original intentions of a work’s creator(s) is never sufficient enough on its own to be taken as the final authority on any given matter. IOI might have made the ETs and these other side missions without intending for them to be able to fit in the main storyline, but their intentions are irrelevant when weighed against what actually ended up happening, and what happened is that each of these things I’ve listed can and do fit into the WoA storyline. The Undying is one that also can fit, and therefore can be seen as an actual occurrence in the story. Maybe it didn’t, but maybe it did, and the same with the Returns follow-up to it.

[47Agent]

C’mon ioi… don’t pass up this opportunity!

[zubin47]

[474747]

Do you have a source that Freelancer is canon?

We’ve had this discussion before so I only have myself to blame if this escalates but I’ll just say this. I find it mindboggling how you think of yourself as the Arbiter of Hitman Canon. You say Holiday Hoarders is canon and Berlin Egg Hunt is non-canon just because you can make up your own explanation for teleportation but not the eggs. It’s head canon anything else is delusional.

[Heisenberg]

@474747

Do you have a source that Freelancer is canon?

IOI stated around the time of its release that Freelancer officially takes place after the one year timeskip at the end of Untouchable, and nothing has come up in that time that negates it. The whole reason 47 and Diana chose to continue their work and how also falls in line with what Freelancer provides us; a place where 47 can settle down and figure out who he is when he’s not working, but still pursuing his career. As the last chronological event to happen in the Hitman storyline, until another game comes along and shows that something else occurred after the two decided to join up again after Untouchable (which admittedly could happen), it is the current canon stopping point for the storyline.

@474747

I find it mindboggling how you think of yourself as the Arbiter of Hitman Canon.

I find it mind boggling that your mind is boggled about it. It’s called paying attention.

@474747

You say Holiday Hoarders is canon and Berlin Egg Hunt is non-canon just because you can make up your own explanation for teleportation but not the eggs.

Seriously? Let’s think about it.

1. The Holiday Hoarders mission is presented as a serious mission with the presence of the “teleporting” Santa the only thing out of the ordinary. Diana has a full mission briefing and everything, and the targets are just regular targets. Meanwhile, in the Easter Egg hunt, you’re just thrown into the mission with a brief description of what to do and you’re supposed to use eggs on people in costumes. It is not treated like a serious mission at all, and is more in line with the dream-like escalations in 7DS and Halloween.

2. The Santa in question in the HH mission is revealed to just be a guy in a costume, as evidenced by the fact that you can knock him out and take his disguise, and like the lawyer from Sapienza and the director of GAMA with their wigs, the Santa beard is fake. The fact that Diana mentions in the briefing that there are reports of strange occurrences happening on the map means that this fake Santa is actively doing things that people notice, but since he’s not the real Santa and the mission is otherwise played seriously, the conclusion to draw is that the guy is using theatrics to act up the part, and the game mechanic presents it like actual teleportation even when it’s not, just like the gameplay mechanic of the ICA training facility treats those deaths like actual killings when they’re just “simulated.”

3. The EEH, unlike HH, is played from start to finish as a fantastical mission rather than a serious one. Even in the serious missions, things that obviously don’t really happen in the real Hitman setting can be triggered just for the sake of fun, like the Kraken in Sapienza, and the UFO abduction exit in Berlin. These things are there and don’t actually happen, but the missions that they can be triggered in are canonical missions. Ergo, ridiculous things happening during a serious mission do not remove that mission’s canonical status. Ones like the Easter hunt, however, are not played seriously, and can only be considered as “real” canon events if they’re taking place inside 47’s head during a period of unconsciousness, like the entirety of 7DS.

Getting back onto the topic of the thread, these reasons are why, yes, the Undying can be considered a canon event, for anyone paying attention to how this series works as far as what can and cannot be considered canon.

[Erigu]

Just wondering: is there a pun I’m not getting in “Oroborous”, or is that just a misspelling of “Ouroboros”?

[Thomas_Ark]

I’m happy for the Undying return, for some people this is new becuase they didn’t play HITMAN 2. But the rest of it? yea some new challenges and some cosmetics. After 4 years this whole thing is getting old and repetitive for me. I would not mind if this is the last Roadmap we get.

[Lewisnic1]

@474747

It’s been asked and answered in one of the old livestreams. ETs are alternative universe. Pretty sure it was Clemens that said it.

Not sure if you’re aware, during the mission ‘End of an Era’, Elusive Targets files are contained in the ICA Data Core and some of them are shown when 47 is scrolling through all the archives, which much pretty much confirms they’re a canon part of the story/timeline. It might be the case that ‘The Undying’ is just a bit of fun Elusive Target, but most of the others are definitely part of the story in some way.

Obviously not all the Elusive targets are realistically killed in Sapienza or Marrakesh every time, but in essence you are supposed to just ignore the presence of the Campaign targets when playing. We only have the maps in game available for the Elusive Targets to play on. It’s not as if IOI are going to create new maps just for Elusive Targets to specifically walk around on.

Speaking of Elusive Targets, Diana’s dialogue during ‘The Drop’ more or less confirms that contract takes place after Freelancer, which also falls into place another part of the story.

@474747

Do you have a source that Freelancer is canon?

Come on, really? We have a game mode specifically called ‘Freelancer’, no ICA resources, Diana and 47 working in joint partnership running their own murder-for-hire organisation? Everything I’ve mentioned pretty much falls into place where the story ended in Hitman III. Also, if you’re going to mention the campaign targets walking around on the maps whilst we have syndicate members/leaders walking around? Again, I prefer to my point above. It’s too much game mechanic issues for IOI to remove all NPC characters, game dialogue, NPC routes etc, so we in essence just ignore the presence of the campaign targets.

In theory, you could say that in terms of Freelancer, the Safehouse, 47 and Diana’s communication during the game mode are all the canon part of Freelancer. The only thing that isn’t, in terms of the story, 47 didn’t realistically kill all these syndicate members and leaders at Paris fashion show, Viñedo Yates vineyard etc.

[Melusca]

@Heisenberg

The Holiday Hoarders mission is presented as a serious mission with the presence of the “teleporting” Santa the only thing out of the ordinary.

I don’t think I would consider a mission where you have to kill the two Home Alone thieves in a level full of random gifts where everyone is oblivious to their existence something “serious” :x

@Lewisnic1

In theory, you could say that in terms of Freelancer, the Safehouse, 47 and Diana’s communication during the game mode are all the canon part of Freelancer.

Given how often she said to me “47 the leader is escaping” I think it’s fair to assume that canonically, their usual MO for dismantling syndicates involved 47 shooting random people in Mendoza in the leg until Diana managed to identify the leader by comparing their screams to her database of syndicate operative voices

[Heisenberg]

@Melusca

I don’t think I would consider a mission where you have to kill the two Home Alone thieves

Based off of. Not the actual Home Alone thieves any more than the Wild Card is actually Gary Busey, the Undying is actually Sean Bean, or the Drop is actually Dimitri Vegas, or those two plumbers in Sapienza are actually Mario and Luigi. It’s a fun little nod to fans about their identities, but it doesn’t change the presentation of the mission.

@Melusca

in a level full of random gifts where everyone is oblivious to their existence

A game mechanic. Harry is actually sneaking around hiding behind stuff, and Marv’s lack of notice is so they can throw in the nods to him just swiping what he comes across and flooding bathrooms. No more of a mystery than why the woman in the black dress can go through three security checkpoints on that same map and never once be checked but the player is asked for an invite twice and frisked after that. If that is just a thing that happens, then so are these two running around. The status of the mission is unaffected.

[Axwage]

Samir, see what happens when you give us a roadmap?? We argue over the realism in the Santa mission!

[Heisenberg]

Even when there’s really nothing to argue about.

[Melusca]

@Heisenberg

No more of a mystery than why the woman in the black dress can go through three security checkpoints on that same map and never once be checked but the player is asked for an invite twice and frisked after that.

The Sheik doesn’t get frisked either so she’s probably just some kind of VIP like him. In fact she could be Margolis’ sister and we wouldn’t know.

[Heisenberg]

Doesn’t match with anything else we see in that mission that would explain that, but I won’t discount that completely as a possibility.

[Samuel]

So interesting，to be honest ，I like Sean bean and Mark faba ，March 22，I will become Agent 47 to challenge Mark faba AKA 006

[LandirtHome]

The Undying Returns is live.

Good luck everyone.

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Here is how the first week of his first appearance went.

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Playing it will automatically reward The Ephemeral Suit.

[Dribbleondo]

Okay, so for those interested, the ETA mission has three stages:

1. Stab with Kronstadt pen
2. Freedom of Approach (do whatever you want)
3. do not change disguise and do not get spotted.

So the DLC does kinda give you the mission with no restrictions…but it’s in the middle of the ETA. Not sure how I feel about that.

[Heisenberg]

Yeah, I would prefer that they swap the second and third one, so the final portion is freedom of approach like a reward for the first two.