I identify the stark difference; I simply reject those being the only two arrangements a save system in Freelancer could have, and thus using that as justification for its lack of inclusion.
That’s fine, you’re welcome to reject them as the only two options, what are the others?
Well, for one off the top of my head, I’ll think of some others when I’m not working, but similar to the no restart system ETs have once an objective is completed or a target kill. A save system could be implemented that allows a save up to such a point.
For example, you have a destroy cameras objective, a poison target objective, a pacify guards with concussion explosives objective, and multiple targets. Say you pacify two guards with a CE, and destroy two cameras. You could still save at that point. But once you destroy the third camera, concuss the third guard, poison any target in any way, or kill any target, the ability to save and/or restart the mission is lost to you, and you’re now in until the end of the mission, make or break. The disconnect restart option obviously isn’t affected by this.
So if I read this right, you’re basically saying “here’s how it could work differently, but even in this case I’ll still do a hard reset whenever I mess up”… which basically means you’ll just ignore that “no restart system” whenever it’s convenient, making it completely useless :x
two problems:
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This is a slightly watered down version of the “saving allowed”, but it ultimately makes no difference since you can eliminate all risk of losing items/the campaign by saving as soon as you enter the level - it’s quite obviously creating a meta-game strategy that entirely subverts the tension.
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Elusive Targets don’t actually do this because you can’t ever save, you can only restart.
If you were to allow restarting, that also eliminates the tension. But then, you can do so anyway, because you can forcibly terminate the game.
The fundamental requirements are:
- You must complete the map in one go
- You must complete the map on your first attempt.
There is absolutely no conceivable scenario where a change in gameplay that subverts either of these two things is equivalent in either difficulty or tension.
Wrong. I’m simply saying that IOI has never been able to completely get rid of this because of the nature of needing to always be online for this game to have its content and updates, and doesn’t want loss of connection to affect players. So this would still be there, regardless of anyone’s opinion on it or willingness to use it.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here, or how this affects what I said. Once you accomplish an objective of any sort, or kill a target, you can no longer save, and you can no longer reload a save. Once you cross that particular threshold, your only way out would be the disconnect option.
That is why, and maybe you missed this part, I said it was similar to the ET systems. Instead of just allowing a restart up to the point of accomplishing an objective, it allows you to save and load that save up to the point of completing said objective. Once you have, no more saving/loading.
I don’t know why you keep going on about “tension.” There is no tension here. There’s frustration, there’s impatience, there’s anger upon failure, but even with the difficulties encountered in this mode, it is not one of tension. Even so, one should not feel tense when playing a game, unless it is one deliberately designed to engender a feeling of terror and/or risk. I go to Resident Evil for that. Hitman hasn’t had any sort of tension since the ending of A Death In The Family and the beginning of Apex Predator.
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You know what, never mind. I’m not gonna have Norseman or Urben come down on me again because somebody lured me into another pointless debate. Think what you want, I say you’re wrong. If you’re going to resort to personal insults for it, I’m gonna start flagging your response, and yes, your little “Heisenberg says this and does that” spiel is an attempt at insult. Take what you will from what I’ve said already.
Yeah but would you still use it? My point wasn’t that your system would prevent people from doing a hard reset, just that your system is not really different than what’s currently in place because people would still bypass it with a hard reset whenever they don’t want to lose progress.
Besides what you’re describing is not a save system at all, it’s just another way to add difficulty to the missions (which is just as artificial as what’s currently in place since you can also bypass it)?
Which is basically the whole premise of roguelikes :x
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If you think it’s alright to be derogatory towards other members on this forum, either by provoking them further into a debate that already have gone to far and therefor made everyone a victim of this nonsensible tug of war. Then you are clearly on the wrong forum.
Disagreement is fine, debate lives on two opposing views. However if your not old enough to be civil about it, then your not old enough to post here.
If this debate continues down the drain, so does your ability to post. I expect everyone to think long and hard about, the next thing you post in this thread.
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A manual save option fixes it for everyone tho since it changes nothing for you…
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Well then by that logic, the targets being “random” are not really random anymore. Lol
Well then by that logic, put in invisibility, unlimited bullets, unlimited money. Etc. Don’t use it if you don’t want it as it doesn’t change anything for you.
Yes they are. You never know which ones you’re gonna get. Its like a box of chocolates or something.
Until you restart/save. Then it’s not random anymore.
Well, not for that playthrough once you’ve committed to it. But when you first start the campaign? All new, all random.
Exactly my point. Once you start adding saves, it ruins the randomness cuz it’s just try and try and try again.
No, you’re missing the point. The mission selection is the random factor. You don’t know what targets you’ll have or how many, or what objectives you’ll have, or where there will be a safe or couriers. All you get to pick is the syndicate type. Once you save, yes, that mission will remain as is until finished, but that’s the point; you want to finish that mission. But the next one you do, you won’t know who your targets are until you play. That’s how it stays random.
Irrelevant before a mission starts. The game auto saves after each mission. We are talking DURING gameplay. Not before or after.
And once you enter a mission and save, it doesn’t become random anymore. You are not only removing that aspect, but you’re also removing the consequences which would be the biggest downfall to remove by adding a save function during gameplay.
No, we are not talking DURING gameplay, we are talking the entire mode as a whole. The random factor is in the beginning the mission, not during play, and removing the consequences would not be a downfall because such consequences are absent for the majority of the game anyway.
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If it’s voluntary and you’d have to select it, then no none of those would change anything either…
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Fr, the amount of time investment required to recoup is more than any one should be playing a game imo. Something that tedious is a chore not a game lolol
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